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Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

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Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:50 pm

Hi all,

After speaking with another player today, we were brainstorming ways to try and encourage new players to the cluster and Munki's server, as well as maintaining them, especially on a pvp server. We thought about what we had seen in the past while playing on other servers, what worked, what didn't, and thought about the following proposal:

Having one map on the pvp cluster that is more of a 'cease fire' map, at least for base raiding and has the sole purpose of encouraging newer players to get good at the game while at the same time be exposed to 'alpha' tribes that are hell bent on pvp.

The issues we are seeing:
    New players are most of the time inexperienced with the game, or pvp in general. This means that they are usually out of their depth when up against more 'seasoned' players, and not as adaptable/resilient when bouncing back from a raid.
    At this stage in the wipe, there are a lot of abandoned bases now, with the odd 'alpha' base mixed in. From a new player's perspective (and remember the vast majority are not that experienced with the game or pvp) this is intimidating and leads them with the 'oh, well this sucks. This isn't safe,' and they move on. Now I know you could argue, 'well they shouldn't do that! How are they going to learn to pvp if they just give up!?' And you'd be right. But that doesn't change the reality that that's the natural reaction to a lot of these players, and if they feel they're on too hostile of a server, with developed alphas, they'll go to where they feel they'll have a smoother induction into pvp.
    As there are more inexperienced players joining, they take longer to build up than the experienced players, even if they have a larger tribe than an alpha, they may take a month to achieve what their alpha neighbour can achieve in a few days. If they are not given the chance to build up, and are not 'taken under the wing' so to speak, then we aren't going to see fresh new players sticking around.
    Attitude; and this again comes with inexperience with a pvp setting. Newer players need a chance to learn how to view the game from a pvp perspective. It's like game of thrones; don't get attached to a character (dino ;P). It also means they need to learn the art of bouncing back after a raid. Of course things are different if they were actively griefed and raided over and over again, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the new players who have a wall blown out, a dodo killed and a smithy destroyed and view that as the end of the world.

The proposal:
Have Ragnarok on the pvp server set aside as the scrub 'bootcamp' server. Whether this just means that the bases there have an almost permanent orp setting, or no structure damage on all or certain days of the week, I don't know. But produce an environment where the newer players can learn about the game in a pvp setting, still be exposed to pvp while they're out farming or 'out in the wild', and still see 'alpha' levels of builds/exposure to occasionally ruthless pvp/possibly get assistance from alpha tribes to learn how to build up. The reason I pick Ragnarok as this map is that it already seems to be like this with the smaller tribes: pve builds. I only recently decided to actually explore Ragnarok, and that's what I saw, a lot of very pve style builds that would turn me off raiding them for the mere purpose of feeling like I was smashing a kid's cool sandcastle. I mean, a lot of the castles/bases look cool and interesting, but on a pvp server it's 'interesting' to see those tribes choose to have little to no defenses on them. What I'm proposing won't remove pvp from Ragnarok, and players would still need to watch their backs when out and about, but if a new player feels they can't build up and learn the game they're just going to move on and not produce us with fresh competition when they spread their wings to SE, Center or Island maps. It's also a map that can expose those players to a variety of dinos from the other maps all in one location.

The possible objections I can see people raising:
Tribes will just abuse this and hide their good loot on Ragnarok!
    Possibly. But let's be honest here. On a server with accelerated rates, is the raid more for resources? Or the fun of the raid? For smaller tribes, they won't really have anything the larger tribes are interested with anyway. Resources are irrelevant,
    and I highly doubt that they would have breeding eggs or blueprints beyond what the alphas already have. As for the alphas who want to raid other alphas: I'm sure that I'm not alone in saying that if we all just built up and hid out on Ragnarok with all of our good loot it'd just get boring. Hell, the server's are already getting quiet. I personally have a small outpost on Ragnarok that's more for dino storage and if this was implemented, I would possible keep some things there for storage like blueprints,
    backup eggs and gear to replace if I get raided on the Island where my main is (forges, smithys etc.) but if the pvp was getting dead on the Island or wherever else I was based I'd almost welcome a raid to spice things up. I'd even start leaving very good loot and sending out screen shots to entice raiders if things got too boring ;P
If you did this, the new tribes would get stuck in a rut and never break out of a 'pve' mentality. Why not just play on a pve server?
    You're forgetting one thing: People have to start from somewhere. Some new players learn pvp very fast and become seasoned killers and raiders under good mentors. However, others may take an entire wipe to get the feel of it, and just by being exposed to the pvp players on Munki's servers may find themselves being assisted or allowed into alliances or tribes on the other servers to learn more. Even if this takes more than one wipe, it produces a newer member to Munki's community to help it grow.

I'm not sure if this will work (actually, despite being optimistic, I'm fairly sure there are too many holes with the idea), and I know I had my concerns when this was suggested (see objections above). But what are other people's thoughts? Because in all honesty, I am still at a bit of a loss as to how to encourage newer players, and hold them, as it appears the issues we're seeing are recurrent.

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King_Kiff
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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#2 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Your idea is good, very well thought out and I like it. I would say if your going to have a scrub server that there be no base damage at all regardless of day of the week. Allowing damage anytime will ultimately lead to offline raiding, where it is possible it will occur we know this by now.

I would say that the next wipe is a bit of a set back too, I personally wouldn't join the server NOW knowing it will wipe in less than 3 months. But that's just my opinion. Others may differ.

Good discussion piece none the less :idea:

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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#3 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:46 pm

I do like the idea, map dedicated to levelling and learning the game.
I can set the transfer so items cannot be transferred, so players can still tame and move dinos across, just not items, this would limit a lot of abuse.
could enable PvE on THAT particular server aswell, to stop people raiding bases, or use reduced structure protection.

curious on peoples thoughts.
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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#4 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:15 pm

We're already well established on Ragnarok; i think it'd be a bit "shitty" to suddenly change it to something like this knowing we then can't take stuff to and from etc.

I completely understand the fact of a PvE server but it impacts people that have already put in effort

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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#5 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:22 pm

It could work with the one way transfer that Munki mentioned. One thing I would like to say is it should really be the island map that it's done on, obviously not the current one though lol. But the Island is the default map that everyone has, if you're trying to attract new players getting them to play on a map they have to download separately may not be the best way to go about it.

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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#6 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:28 pm

Ragnarok wrote:It could work with the one way transfer that Munki mentioned. One thing I would like to say is it should really be the island map that it's done on, obviously not the current one though lol. But the Island is the default map that everyone has, if you're trying to attract new players getting them to play on a map they have to download separately may not be the best way to go about it.



+1

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DrunkMunki
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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#7 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Gambit wrote:We're already well established on Ragnarok; i think it'd be a bit "shitty" to suddenly change it to something like this knowing we then can't take stuff to and from etc.

I completely understand the fact of a PvE server but it impacts people that have already put in effort


this wouldnt happen now, would happen next wipe
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Sanity
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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#8 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm

See i would be all for this idea of a map just for new players but this late into the release and adding the fact the tribes like myself have spent a lot of time and effort setting our base up on that map it would be quite unfair in that respect to then rip that out from under like that, a decision like this should have been made a while ago. all i can think of to fix this is maybe have sectioned off areas in every map that is a "no raid no pvp area" much like how herbie used to be, untill people can get setup a little (and without a level cap for the really casual players), and somehow enforcing that none of the larger tribes abuse this by building a little shack in there so they dont lose their stuff.
Last edited by Sanity on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#9 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:37 pm

I'm interested with all of the different viewpoints. I've now had a few different people privately give me their two cents and from those thoughts I can summarise the following:

    1) Good idea, but maybe not for this wipe due to a variety of different reasons different people have all discussed.
    2) It's really not fair on the players who have only really developed on Ragnarok and intend to play pvp from there.
    3) It will be difficult to police some exploits still happening that sneaky people discover.
    4) It is very disappointing to think that the loot from things like the lava golem won't be useable on the other pvp maps if Munki makes it so items can't be transferred.
    5) What about another, separate map being used in the cluster as the 'scrub map'?

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Re: Suggestion: Scrub map to encourage pvp population

Post#10 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:41 pm

Builder wrote: What about another, separate map being used in the cluster as the 'scrub map'?


im not going to add another map unless more donations are done to cover costs, time and effort managing/monitoring another map, e.g another Island or add a Volcano map... all adds up.
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